Author Topic: Video card longevity  (Read 643 times)

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Offline Blakhart

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Video card longevity
« on: October 04, 2018, 12:41:34 AM »
Today I fired up the rig after work and looked at innernets for a while and then started T2 to see who was around. No one. So I popped into scp to do my usual cap and drop and as I hopped into the invo in dangerous crossing and shot a disk at the invo and bam, instant lockup, crazy terminator genesys noise, and then black screen. The system says the card has been disabled because it's reporting an error. Longest lasting vid card I've ever had. Well, at least it went out playing T2. Speaking of going out playing T2, there should be a pact that when the assholes start ww3 we all join a server and play until we're vaporised.


I've had this gtx260 for ages and it was used when I got it, ran it since my gtx8800 went tango uniform. Served me well but was quite the current hog with the 448 bit memory interface or whatever insane interface it had. Been thinking about a 750ti as they're insanely quiet and use about 60 watts at full roar and can be found cheap on the used market. Then I started thinking why risk buying a dying card from someone when I can get a new one for a bit more.
So it's a tossup between a 1050ti and a 1060, looking like the 1060 is the winner as it's almost twice the card the 1050 is and only about 30 bucks more spendy.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 12:47:11 AM by Blakhart »

Offline JesusChrist

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 03:07:18 PM »
If you used it all day for gaming, it had a good life. Rest in pieces. I also had two average AMD cards from 5 years ago die.  Right now I use a second-hand GTX 560ti from about 2011 that surprisingly works well for 720p gaming.

I suppose a video card might (usually) last more than 5 years if you don't use it very often. They get very hot, and heath is death for components. And I sure used my card a lot, lol. If I were you and I were to buy a new card, I'd buy the best one even if it costs a bit more.
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Offline Blakhart

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 01:32:40 AM »
I agree. The 1060 3gb was only 50 bucks more than the 1050ti and is a bit over a third more powerful, the next step up, a 6gb 60 was another 50 bucks so 3gb it is. Passmark has some interesting benchmarks for pc testing so went there and used their vid card comparison chart to look at what's good.https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/compare/GeForce-GTX-260-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060-3GB-vs-GeForce-GTX-1050-Ti/17vs3566vs3595
Lol here's a comparison of the gtx 260 and 1060 to my first all new build back when the P4 and ATI 9700 were king (2002);https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/compare/GeForce-GTX-260-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060-3GB-vs-RADEON-9700-PRO/17vs3566vs1726
The ATI 9700 pro was the first vid card I used that didn't choke on Houston or Miami vehicles.


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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 01:35:29 PM »
Speaking of ATI 9700s, remember Tom's Hardware? Great webpage. Anyway, when the 9700 was brand new, they went and took a celeron 200 or 300, remember when cpus were in slot cards? They took a celeron 200 slot1 proc on a bx chipset mobo (viva la bx!) and ran a ATI 9700 agp card on it and demolished most benchmarks of the day, proving that the vid cards of the day were the bottleneck in games and vid benches. If a Pentium 1 233 would hold a 9700, that woulda been a fearsome combination. Lol The Sami and I both had Cyrix 586s back in the day, imagine a 596 with a GF4ti or 9700.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrix_Cx5x86

So I got to thinking. I don't want to spend on an entirely new system just yet when you can just replace what keels over, such as the recent vid card death. This ancient relic has done everything I wanted it to and still does, so why buy a new one? The mobo, cpu, and ram work just as well as the day in 2008 (back when you guys were like 12 or whatever) I brought them home from Frys in Indianapolis. Frys is ossum if you're geeky by the way. I know it's a matter of time when the mobo leaves me high and dry and a new build will commence, good idea to start on one before the need arises, already have the vid card that should be good for 10 years lol....

Anyway, not long ago I was looking at cpu benchmarks for single threaded apps, comparing the e8500 to newer cpus, and in single threaded stuff the 8500 was more or less right there with the latest and greatest, as long as the clock speed was comparable within 100MHz of 3GHz. So I went and looked up the fastest quad core that would fit the mobo socket and it seems the Q9650 fits the bill. They're 50 bucks on amazon, used is fine as long as it works.
Look at this guys testing of the Q9650;

Offline Blakhart

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 01:36:15 PM »
He got 4GHz out of the 9650 on air, I never oc anything so my results won't be as spectacular as his but you get the idea. My mobo is a stock Intel with no oc options at all, I value reliability over a few tenths more performance. If you want more performance, the answer lays in throwing faster hardware at it. I do however recommend memory timing tweaks to get the most out of the mem bus, and when done right this causes no reliability issues.

I basically retire a system when the mobo dies such as my beloved nforce4 system with the s939 socket, the mobo died but I still have all the parts, including dual 7800gts for sli, hard to find any s939 mobos so these parts may never find a home.
So, another 50 bucks or so for a Q9650 and some artic silver for the heat sink and I'll be gaming at core i5 level for the next ten years.Hopefully.



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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 04:50:52 PM »
Lol here's a comparison of the gtx 260 and 1060 to my first all new build back when the P4 and ATI 9700 were king (2002);https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/compare/GeForce-GTX-260-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060-3GB-vs-RADEON-9700-PRO/17vs3566vs1726
That score, lol. Seriously though, technology advances so fucking fast. My processor and ssd went down like 30% to 50% in price in the last few years. I remember when SSDs were too expensive to use for anything but your OS and now everyone buys them for gaming.

That guy who got 4ghz on air was just lucky... the most I could OC my processor by and keep it stable was like 100 or 200 mhz. I know you want reliability but wouldn't an OC'd processor last just slightly less if you don't go crazy with the OC and keep it cool? I'd want the OC if I could keep it cool, because your processor would probably be outdated by the time it would die anyway. What I would not OC though is a videocard.

By the way, I usually avoid gaming channels like the plague but this guy's pretty cool and makes a lot of videos about retro stuff. Check it out:
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 04:56:05 PM by JesusChrist »
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Offline Blakhart

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 07:59:25 PM »
The thing that kills a lot of vid cards and chips in general when run overclocked ie too hot or overvolted is called dc migration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration
This effect is why light bulbs burn out, the filament molecules migrate until thin and thick sections appear and the thin sections can't stand the heat and melt open.
Then there's bad caps, electrolytic capacitors that end up drying out, shorting, etc that cause havoc, as well as the shite lead free solder replacement that can only stand so many thermal cycles before it cracks and the parts that had been soldered are no longer in contact.This all brought about the oven trick, wich first learned about with my 7950gtx going bonkers;https://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_7900.html
https://www.overclockers.com/the-oven-trick-repairing-your-broken-video-card-with-an-oven/
My first serious gaming effort after the 3GHz p4/ATI9700 was a Athlon XII 4200 on an nforce4 mobo, originally with 6800gtxs in sli. I tried a Radeon 1300XT for a while and loved the image quality but it puked in T2 all the time so it got sold. Then one of the 6800s failed so I got the 7800gts and rolled with those till that mobo died, then went back to Intel for a new system build with the E8500 and 7900GTX. That was the fastest card I'd had so far, like 800fps in T2 just about no matter where you looked, 1400fps in T1. That was at 1024x768 res. I tested this thing yesterday and it does 300fps in T2 and 900fps in T1 at 1080p. The reason this card doesn't pull 1400fps in T2 and 3000fps in T1 is because it's a scalar card, not a vector card. When the 7900 went tango uniform I got a 8800GTS and it pretty much wiped the floor, you couldn't dial in enough detail or antialiasing to make it choke, that's what sold me on scalar cards over vector cards. Upping antialiasing on vector cards really chokes them. Older games sans programmable shaders generally run faster on vector cards, programmable shaders will do best on scalar cards.Nvid's first scalar card was the mighty 8800 series.
A treatise upon scalar and vector video topologies;
http://www.ece.neu.edu/groups/nucar/publications/Zhongliang_Chen_thesis.pdf

« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 08:08:34 PM by Blakhart »

Offline Blakhart

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 10:17:28 PM »
3dmark 2001se 260gtx results;DISPLAY
Platform    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260
CPU Optimization    D3D Pure Hardware T&L
Width    1024
Height    768
Depth    32 bit
Z-Buffering    24 bit
Texture Format    Compressed
Buffering    Double
Refresh Rate    60 Hz
FSAA Mode    None

OPTIONS
Show Title Screens    Yes
Continuous Benchmark    No
Benchmark Run Count    1
Demo Sounds Enabled    Yes
Continuous Demo    No
Game Sound Effects Enabled    Yes
Game Music Enabled    Yes
Game Detail Level    Low

RESULTS
3DMark Score    30310
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail    330.7 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail    81.9 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail    496.1 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail    267.9 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail    381.4 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail    178.1 fps
Game 4 - Nature    383.5 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)    6834.0 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)    29749.0 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light)    322.6 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights)    164.5 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping    605.8 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping    613.4 fps
Vertex Shader    293.9 fps
Pixel Shader    395.3 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader    896.4 fps
Point Sprites    178.9 MSprites/s
This was at 1024x768 resolution. Game 4, the nature test is the harshest test so note the results. I use this benchmark as it's closest to the T2 era as far as hardware expectations.

Offline Blakhart

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 10:18:39 PM »
And here's the 1060 results;DISPLAY
Platform    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB
CPU Optimization    D3D Pure Hardware T&L
Width    1920
Height    1080
Depth    32 bit
Z-Buffering    24 bit
Texture Format    Compressed
Buffering    Double
Refresh Rate    60 Hz
FSAA Mode    8 samples

OPTIONS
Show Title Screens    Yes
Continuous Benchmark    No
Benchmark Run Count    1
Demo Sounds Enabled    Yes
Continuous Demo    No
Game Sound Effects Enabled    Yes
Game Music Enabled    Yes
Game Detail Level    High

RESULTS
3DMark Score    42687
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail    494.4 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail    128.2 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail    673.3 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail    365.0 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail    524.5 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail    223.0 fps
Game 4 - Nature    572.0 fps
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)    41272.9 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)    120222.4 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light)    1006.3 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights)    818.7 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping    775.5 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping    840.3 fps
Vertex Shader    458.1 fps
Pixel Shader    571.8 fps
Advanced Pixel Shader    2366.7 fps
Point Sprites    339.2 MSprites/s
1920x1080 resolution.

Offline JesusChrist

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 05:03:18 PM »
The benches look pretty close when you compare such an old card to a new one. I mean, yeah, the first bench's not in HD but 1024x768, but for 2009, when it was made, I'm sure it played most games at that time in HD without any problems. So apparently you could still play a lot of games today fine by lowering the details and resolution, had it not broke.

I do not know much at all about electricity, so neat to know about electromigration, too.


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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 09:35:18 PM »

Offline Blakhart

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2018, 09:56:21 PM »

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2018, 10:39:38 AM »
Looks like I've missed a bit since I last visited...
If you wanna talk longevity in GPUs, I got a Rage 128 Ultra that'll show you longevity, heh. 800Mhz Celeron, 128MB SDRAM, 10GB IBM Deskstar, Win98 FE. All in a SFF Dell from 1999. First computer I had, and it sure got a heck of a beating with S:T, NFS III, and WipEout XL. Which, if anyone has access to the recovery diskette that they provided with it (Dell Optiplex GX 150,) please let me know. The BIOS curroupted somehow, and that's the only way I can get it flashed.
Add to that a Radeon 9700 Ti in my Win2k desktop (I estimate well over $1,000 when it was custom built,) the Radeon x1900 in my XP, and the RX 560 in my current one. Since heat is an issue, I found it best to replace the cheap paste on the GPUs with some artic silver, and (If you can get it to fit) aftermarket GPU heatsinks. I've modded a CPU heatsink onto one before, fun stuff. (: As you might've guessed, I have far too many computers for my own good (I think I have 12 now...?)The first nVidia card I've ever owned is in the custom rig I got yesterday from 1999 (Well over $1,000 as well, hah.) Once I get a HDD in it, I'll show how the GeForce 2 in it runs, along with its Gen1 Athlon CPU (Yes, the card CPU type...)... As you might've guessed, I've stuck with AMD since day one when I have the choice.Since I'm here, here's my desktop specs, just for fun:
Mobo: MSI 990FXA
CPU: FX-8370, CoolerMaster Hyper T4
RAM: 12GB DDR3GPU: Radeon RX 560 4GB GDDR5
HDD: Three 1TB HHDs, 256GB SSD
OS: Windows 7, Ubuntu Studio 18.04.1 LTS, Archlinux.
- I never touch Win7 anymore. (:
And how could I forget the ATI TV Wonder 550 and my beloved Sony Diskette drive? Lol.
 

It appears that, on my phone, I have to manually add breaks to seperate things... Strange...
-Time be with You-

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2018, 10:11:05 PM »
Lol a rage 128? Those were the shite back in the day, trounced the tnt2 nvid cards. Think I have  pci version somewhere for server builds. Have a tnt2 ultra laying around too. I dunno wtf was going on, maybe our choice in driver, but I recall the 128 made T1 have rainbow colors on certain textures for some reason. Oh yeah, Rusty (if you ever played Blair Lag Project T1 Ultra server you remember Rusty) had the original voodoo sli setup and we played T1 in glide, it made opengl look awful in comparison.

My first home build was from parts bought at the huge monthly computer fleamarket in Sioux City Iowa, gateway rigs were made there and they sold refurbs and overstock to local contractors who bought by the pallet, I walked past pallets of AMD slot A mobos, pallets of slot A Athlons, vid cards, hdds, dirt cheap. Good working Athlon 600 slot A? $6. Slot A mobo? $5. The Athlon vs Pentium wars made computers even cheaper, gave the mobo and I think a honest to god 1ghs Athlon slot A setup to a friend for retro gaming, you know you really need a retro rig to play the 98 era games right. Was playing mdk2 last nite for the first time with the new vid card, over 2000 fps with everything turned to max at 1080p, never looked so good, but for some reason, level changes took minutes, always odd stuff when running old games on newer hardware.
Need to do a retro build for 98 games to really play them right..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emc9R8EZmqY

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Re: Video card longevity
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2018, 10:50:54 AM »
Hey, it was given to me, so I didn't complain, since it was either the Rage 128 or integrated Intel, lol. I know what you mean by rainbow colors; I just ignored it and played on, because it ran so smooth at 800x600 and looked a whole lot better than software. :D S:T was the only game I had rendering issues with... It was in the time when there were way too many video cards, though, so issues like that were to be expected...

Slot A? That's exactly what this Win98 rig is that I got two days ago. 500Mhz Athlon K7500 running it, with 128MB SDRAM (I've been working all night on this thing to figure out why it died, only to find its 256MB chip died, D'oh.) The IDE cable system is a mess right now (Since I've been slaving over it 'till now,) but I attached a picture of it in this message. I don't know exactly which card is which, but it does have a GeForce2 MX-400, an ATI TV Wonder (I believe. It is ATI,) a Quadrophonic sound card, Dial-Up card, Ethernet card, Diskette drive, 250 ZIP drive (The thing of the future, right?) and a 32x CD-RW Sony disc drive. I have a 40GB HDD waiting to be added to it, which might have to be the primary if I can't recover the Matrox one in it... Never thought I'd be in need of IDE HDDs, lol.

I wish I lived where you did, I needed places like that back when. Out here in Arkansas, you'd be doing great just to find any computer parts for sale... Or any computers period. I had to trek my way up to Oklahoma just to get a diskette drive, which is actually the one I'm using in my desktop now, haha!
-Time be with You-

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